NIC Chats Podcast with Roosevelt Davis

Introduction: (00:02)
Welcome to NIC Chats, ideas and inspiration from senior living leaders with host Beth Mace, NIC's, chief economist and director of outreach. Get to know some of the people influencing senior living today and perhaps learn a thing or two from their experiences.

Beth Mace: (00:19)
Hello and welcome to the NIC Chats podcast. My name is Beth Mace and I'm the chief economist and director of the research and analytics team here at NIC. Thank you for joining us today. The focus of the NIC Chats podcast is talking to interesting people that have ideas I think you'd really like to hear about. As you listen today, I hope that you'll find some humor, insights, inspiration, and hopefully what I call an "aha" moment when something pithy or insightful has been said or a light bulb may go off for you. Now, before I begin, I'd like to take a moment to talk about an exciting new offering from NIC. There is a new virtual offering in our popular boot camps, a Skilled Nursing Boot Camp. The NIC Skilled Nursing Boot Camp course is designed as the crash course for those people who are new to the sector or those who like to stay current in underwriting skilled nursing properties.

Beth Mace: (01:11)
Like our Senior Housing Boot Camp course, participants will engage in a case study grounded in today's reality, that will expand on options from the operator's perspective. Participants will hear pitches for consideration and determine whether to sell the property, hold the property, or retain a new operator. The course includes mock offers, term sheets, and more. This half day online NIC Skilled Nursing Boot Camp course will be held on May 5th. Learn more about it at NIC.org/snbc. So let me tell you a little bit about the structure of today's event. First, I'm going to tell you three statements about my guest. Two of those will be true. And then throughout the podcast you'll learn, which is true and which is false. Second, there are three standard questions within each podcast for each speaker and the first will be what is the largest challenge facing our industry? Second, what is one thing to grow talent in our industry? And third, one innovative way or idea to strengthen our industry. Now, as I say, on with the show. So I'm delighted that the NIC Chats podcast today is with Roosevelt Davis. Roosevelt is the senior director of seniors housing at Fannie Mae. Roosevelt, thank you so much for joining us today.

Roosevelt Davis: (02:32)
Thank you for having me Beth, glad to be here.

Beth Mace: (02:34)
Great. So as I mentioned, I had three statements about Roosevelt. Two of these are true, and one is not. The statements include: first, he has four children between the ages of 20 and 25. If that's true, God bless you. Second, is that he ruptured his left Achilles tendon playing a three-on-three basketball tournament, "Hoops for the Homeless" at Freddie Mac. And then he ruptured his right Achilles tendon, the following year playing the same basketball tournament at Freddie Mac. Third, that he ran 10 marathons within a span of 11 years. Now you're going to have to stay tuned for the entire podcast to actually see which of these is true and which are not true. So with that Roosevelt, can you tell us a little bit about Fannie Mae? And more specifically about what Fannie Mae does in senior housing?

Roosevelt Davis: (03:27)
Sure. Fannie Mae has been lending in the stabilized seniors housing sector since about 1998. Our mission revolves around the need for housing, and we basically try to serve critical need for our country's aging population. We try to make sure that we provide liquidity and stability in the seniors housing market.

Beth Mace: (03:50)
What's your deal flow in a given year since 1998?

Roosevelt Davis: (03:58)
It definitely varies. I’d say the seniors housing business is lumpy. But, on average I would say, it’s been, maybe if I had to average it out over the years, it may have been like one and a half billion.

Beth Mace: (04:16)
Per year?

Roosevelt Davis: (04:16)
Right. Yes, yes. And that's pre pandemic.

Beth Mace: (04:22)
Okay. So how does it work? Do I go directly to Fannie Mae to get a loan? Or how does it work?

Roosevelt Davis: (04:29)
Sure. We have what we call 17 seniors housing lenders that bring us loans. And so those seniors housing lenders are basically under the umbrella of being a DUS lender.

Beth Mace: (04:43)
D. U. S.

Roosevelt Davis: (04:44)
D. U. S., yes. Delegated underwriting servicing. So we have a DUS lender base, actually there's about 22 in multifamily and out of the 22 DUS lenders, 17 of those lenders bring deals to Fannie Mae. Those lenders have expertise in seniors housing originations, seniors housing underwriting, as well as seniors housing asset management.

Beth Mace: (05:14)
So when those DUS lenders bring you deals, do you underwrite them as well? Or how does that work?

Roosevelt Davis: (05:19)
We basically review their underwriting, review the transaction and provide comments and feedback. We may restructure the loan to fit and meet our risks that we may see in a transaction. And, you know, once we all are on the same page, my team ends up quoting the deal and providing a proceeds and quote and structure to the sponsor/borrower to see if it's a quote acceptable to them.

Beth Mace: (05:53)
Did that volume of activity change during COVID or did you guys keep lending.

Roosevelt Davis: (05:58)
For sure. You know, well, one of the great things about Fannie Mae is the fact that we are always in a market and that's one of the things that I'm really proud of being an employee here at Fannie Mae is that no matter what cycle, no matter what market that we are in, we are constantly lending. During COVID we did adjust how we look at deals based on the risk that we were seeing in the market. So during COVID, we were a little bit lower in leverage and higher in coverage, and we also required debt service reserves at the time. And I would say like within a year or so of being that conservative that we remove some of those barriers in terms of requiring a debt service reserve, as we saw the market get better. So debt service reserves are no longer required right now.

Beth Mace: (06:48)
So are you pretty much back to pre-COVID in terms of lending activity and requirements?

Roosevelt Davis: (06:53)
In terms of requirements, I would say yes, but we are definitely taking a closer look at deals today, right. There are definitely a lot of challenges in the markets. And so we are peeling back the onion a lot more these days in terms of reviewing and analyzing deals and making sure we have a clear understanding of the risk that we see in the deal, the market, the operator and the transaction itself.

Beth Mace: (07:22)
Any red flags that you see when you are looking at a deal, just for people who are listening to this call, what they need to know before they come and try to work with your DUS lenders and Freddie.

Roosevelt Davis: (07:33)
Sure. I would say right now, you know, there are definitely some challenges and taking a look at a seniors housing transaction, definitely we're paying attention to occupancy. You know, has a property been able to bounce back since the height of COVID, you know, is it a stabilized asset in terms of where is occupancy today? Number two is really taking a close look at expenses. Labor is huge right now. So we are taking a look at contract agency labor versus full time employees and getting a sense of, where they are in terms of labor. Are the expenses for contract and agency labor increasing. Is that coming down? Are they able to hire full-time employees? Where are they in terms of labor? And then you also have the [ris], you know, insurance costs are still going up.

Roosevelt Davis: (08:35)
Food costs also increasing, due to inflation. So we're definitely taking a real close look at expenses these days to make sure that we can get to a stabilized net cash flow or NOI that's going to be pretty much sustainable throughout the life of the loan. But I would say right now, being in the business 20 plus years, it has been extremely hard, you know, this day and very challenging underwriting a deal today because just the uncertainty in the market and where the property cash flow is going to be not only the next couple of months, but within like the next couple of years, you know, what's happening with the expenses as well as revenue growth.

Beth Mace: (09:19)
Yeah. So, I mean, just to underscore your point, not all properties are the same and you really have to like dig deep. So for example, in the first quarter data for 2022 released by NIC Map Vision, the average occupancy for seniors housing was 80.6%. But within that, almost 30% of those properties had occupancy rates above 90%. So that's pretty interesting. So you look at the average occupancy, or even when you do this down at the metropolitan area level, it's important to sort of, as you said, peel the onion back to really look. Now within that same group of properties for their primary 31 NIC Map Vision markets, 40% of those had occupancies below 80%. So that's a large share. Back before COVID started was about 23%. So a lot more properties that are under duress or, you know, low occupancy rates that we hadn't seen before.

Roosevelt Davis: (10:17)
And also too Beth, I would say, in conjunction with that, we are also entering an environment where, you know, interest rates are going up, they're increasing. So the cost of capital is definitely increasing. And, that's something that we are looking at as well. This could also limit the amount of proceeds that our sponsor can get for their transaction.

Beth Mace: (10:39)
Yeah. I mean, the CPI in February was up almost 8% on a year over year basis. And then we saw that the Federal Reserve did in fact increase rates by 25 basis points in March with another expectation that on the short end of their yield curve rates are going to go up to, you know, almost 1.9% percent by the end of 2022 and 2.75%. This is the fed funds rates, so the short end at 2.75. So the world is in fact changing. Yeah.

Roosevelt Davis: (11:07)
For sure.

Beth Mace: (11:08)
So tell us a bit more about your role as senior director at Fannie Mae. And you've been there I think since 2008. So what's changed? What's changed since you've been there? And what surprised you about your job and what's been most satisfying?

Roosevelt Davis: (11:23)
For sure. When I started out at Fannie Mae in 2008, my anniversary was in March. So I'm going on... 14, I just completed 14 years at Fannie Mae.

Roosevelt Davis: (11:37)
I started out as an account manager, and I was an account manager for about like four years. And then after that I became, you know, the head of the seniors housing production finance team, and, you know, a lot has changed since 2008 to now. We've definitely seen a lot of changes in the market. We've definitely seen, you know, the growth of the seniors housing space since the 2008. And, I would say now, during COVID and being a part of COVID, that has been the most challenging time that I have seen being in this industry and space and, providing capital to the market definitely has, you know, made us take a closer look at our sponsors, market property, and have us do a deeper dive in some of these deals that we were financing.

Beth Mace: (12:40)
No, it's interesting. So I've been in the space for quite a long time as well, and it's, we've definitely seen a change of much more institutional capital large, pension funds that have come into the market as well. A lot of private equity funds today that exist that certainly didn't exist in 2008. And we have some of the larger rates involved in this space as well. So it's a sector that's really matured and growing, which is exciting to see.

Roosevelt Davis: (13:05)
Yes, yes. Yes.

Beth Mace: (13:08)
So in your crystal ball, what are you most bullish about when you look forward for Fannie in terms of the, you know, the next few years?

Roosevelt Davis: (13:15)
So in terms of, you know, being bullish and what I see in the future with Fannie, as I mentioned early on Fannie Mae will always be a provider of liquidity for the seniors housing space. And that's one thing that I'm super glad and happy about. You know, you can judge a lender by how they operate in tough times. So even though we adjusted our risk during the height of COVID, we also made forbearances available for those sponsors that needed some help to, forbear, you know, their mortgage payment. And so I was definitely proud of Fannie Mae of being able to offer that relief and help and offer assistance to some of the sponsors that needed it during the tough time of going through COVID and having the cash flows on properties interrupted. So was definitely proud of that.

Beth Mace: (14:13)
Which in fact, actually, you know, when COVID started, I know myself and a lot of other analysts were really expecting that there would be a lot of distress that would be put back into the market, not just for senior housing, but for all commercial real estate. And in fact that didn't happen, especially in the senior housing. And I think it largely had to do with Fannie and others that partnered and extended some support for those operators that were under great distress and duress during COVID.

Roosevelt Davis: (14:41)
Yes, yes. That was really huge. And a lot of our sponsors appreciated us continuing to be in the market and continuing to lend, and also, you know, being able to provide forbearance help and assistance to those that needed it. It was a huge help.

Beth Mace: (14:57)
Okay. So now I'm going to go back to the three statements I said about you and is this true or is this false? Did you rupture your left Achilles tendon playing three on three basketball tournament at Freddie Mac, and then very shortly thereafter, you ruptured your right Achilles tend the following year playing the same basketball tournament at Freddie Mac?

Roosevelt Davis: (15:21)
Unfortunately, that is true. That is true.

Beth Mace: (15:25)
Ouch! Ouch!

Roosevelt Davis: (15:25)
Beth, I love basketball. That's my favorite sport. And at the time when I was at Freddie Mac, they had three on three tournaments throughout the company. And you know, that first year I played in it and , unfortunately I ended up rupturing, you know, my left Achilles, And the next year I prepared, I stretched, I did all the right things and boom, it happened again. So yes, back to back years ruptured Achilles.

Beth Mace: (16:00)
Ouch, ouch, ouch. So did your team end up... How'd the team do?

Roosevelt Davis: (16:04)
Very, very interesting. So the first year when I rupture my Achilles, we were in the semi-finals and we didn't have any bench players. And so if we won that game, we made it to the finals. So I continued to play with a ruptured Achilles. I hopped on one leg, we ended up winning the game, moving to the finals, but I had a ruptured Achilles as a result of this. But that was very interesting hopping on one leg trying to continue to play so we can win the game. But we won.

Beth Mace: (16:37)
You're probably a hero, you probably a hero among your fellow players, but not so heroic among your family when you came home.

Roosevelt Davis: (16:44)
That is true. That is true

Beth Mace: (16:45)
Right. So let's... We talked a little bit about your sort of career path at Fannie since 2008, but tell us a little bit more about your broader career path in terms of you know, we have younger people that listen to these podcasts and any lessons that you want to share about sort of how you got to your important position that you're into today.

Roosevelt Davis: (17:07)
Sure, sure. You know, what I would say is definitely success is no accident. I think there are a couple of things that contribute to one's success. And number one for me is hard work and perseverance and I sum that up as just taking action and just working hard and working smart and persevering. Number two, I would say always staying in the mode of constantly learning, learning, and studying. And I would sum that up as just growth you want to continue to grow. Number three, I would say that there's going to sometimes involve some sacrifices, you know, in order to reach your goals and to accomplish some of your career goals, there's going to be some sacrifices that you are going to have to make. So definitely make the necessary sacrifices that you need to make in order to accomplish the goals you have set for yourself. And number four, I would say try to do something that that you love doing, something that you're passionate about. So I would say those four things definitely were instrumental to me and helping me get to where I am today.

Beth Mace: (18:29)
I think that's really important. Thank you for sharing that. For those who are listening, I would sort of put that in the aha category, especially the idea of you know, the sacrifice sometimes that you have to take to do things and simply just perseverance and willing to work hard.

Roosevelt Davis: (18:45)
Yep.

Beth Mace: (18:45)
Yep. That's great. Okay. So, you sort of alluded to this, but you know, there were a lot of opportunities out there in career paths. So why did you choose to put your energies into seniors housing? Is that the passion piece?

Roosevelt Davis: (19:00)
Yes, I would say I grew passionate about that. You know, out of college I started out with Prudential as a commercial real estate analyst working in Chicago. So I touched all commercial real estate, property types, office retail, industrial, multifamily and so on. After working at Prudential, it definitely, you know, gave me an opportunity to just learn about just commercial real estate in general. And then from there, I went to work with the company Heller Financial, doing some portfolio analyst type work in commercial real estate. Then after that, I went to work for a company called Criimi Mae as a commercial backed CMBS underwriter, commercial real estate. And then how I got into seniors housing was when I, went to work for Freddie Mac. Started Freddie Mac back in 1999 and I was mainly doing multifamily and they needed someone in the Southeast region to take on seniors housing responsibilities, you know, production and underwriting.

Roosevelt Davis: (20:11)
And I raised my hand and, you know, I’ve definitely enjoyed it ever since. So I first got my feet wet back in 1999 at Freddie Mac. And one of the things that I love and enjoy about seniors housing is that you're making a difference. You are playing a role and my role is as a lender providing capital to those great owner and operators that are providing, housing, healthcare and hospitality to, I would say, one of our jewels of society and that's, our seniors. I say in society from my perspective, there are two jewels, that's a protected class, the children and babies, and then our elderly folks. And, you know, being in this business and touring properties and seeing, how having a senior in a great property and what that property is doing for that senior in terms of just activities and them offering them healthcare or giving them hospitality and activities and all that, you just see a difference in their lives and how it's also extending their lives, to certain extent, you know, if you're in the right place.

Roosevelt Davis: (21:30)
And so I feel as though, even though I'm on the finance side, I'm making a difference by providing capital to those folks that are taking care of one of our jewels. And those are our seniors, those seniors that fought wars for us. They took care of us when we were young. They played a lot of major roles in society, teachers, doctors, lawyers, you know, policemen. And so to have housing for them, you know, when they become a senior is truly important. And I think it does a lot for them and extending their lives from my perspective.

Beth Mace: (22:07)
Well, I love your passion and I actually had the same passion and kind of a similar path that at one point I worked for and underwrote from a research perspective, all the other food groups sort to speak as well. So industrial multifamily, office, retail, shopping centers, malls, and so on. And senior housing was one of the areas of many that I used to work on and was really drawn to it as well.

Roosevelt Davis: (22:32)
Mm-hmm, .

Beth Mace: (22:32)
Because of, you know, you can do good by doing well or do well by doing good or that kind of thing. And it's important to provide housing and care for exactly the constituents and for the reasons that you said. So cheers, cheers to you. Thanks for bringing that up.

Roosevelt Davis: (22:47)
Yeah. Thank you.

Beth Mace: (22:49)
So, let's talk a little bit more now about just your view on the senior housing sector, the sector more broadly.

Roosevelt Davis: (22:57)
Mm-hmm .

Beth Mace: (22:57)
What do you think are the near and longer term sort of viewpoint on this sector, both the strengths and opportunities and challenges and weaknesses?

Roosevelt Davis: (23:07)
No, for sure. I think right now the... Some of the challenges for us and opportunities for us to make it better is that, you know, we are in COVID or we definitely have gone through the height of COVID, but are we able to convince the American public, that seniors housing is safe for mom and dad. You know, can they be protected from the viruses? And is this a safe place now for mom and dad to go to? And so I think, you know, the better we are in terms of explaining our protocols and how your parent or grandparent will be protected by being in our facility. I think that's a challenge that we have to overcome and continue to prove to the American public. So they would be comfortable in having mom and dad reside in seniors housing.

Beth Mace: (24:14)
In fact, I have a stat. You know, I'm into my statistics with my numbers, right?

Roosevelt Davis: (24:20)
Mm-hmm, .

Beth Mace: (24:21)
In the first quarter of ‘22 for senior housing, again in the primary markets, the occupancy rate actually increased despite the fact that we had omicron and I really thought about that for a long time, because omicron, we know was a lot more virulent than the first COVID 19... What am I trying to say? The first COVID 19 virus. Yet due to sort of what operators have been able to do in terms of keeping a safe environment as well, of course, a vaccine. It prevented us from seeing that huge drop in occupancy that we saw, you know, at the beginning of 2020. So I was really heartened by that actually. That we've... Still a ways to go, and we still can't say that we won't have another variant, but I think we're much better equipped today to handle it than we certainly were.

Roosevelt Davis: (25:09)
Right. I think the biggest plus for us, and one of the things we saw from a lender perspective is definitely when the vaccine came out and we saw the high percentages of residents taking the vaccine and, you know, a lot of the... 90% plus of all of the deals that we finance, you know, the residents have, you know, taken a vaccine and that seems to definitely mitigate, some of the spread of the viruses at these particular properties. So that was definitely helpful and mitigated the risk.

Beth Mace: (25:44)
So I know you know about the "Forgotten Middle" study that NIC did and published in 2019.

Roosevelt Davis: (25:50)
Mm-hmm .

Beth Mace: (25:51)
And that was really focusing on providing care and housing to middle income seniors. So how about Fannie Mae? Where do you fit into that?

Roosevelt Davis: (26:00)
I think part of Fannie Mae's mission both single family and multifamily is all about affordability. And, you know, we here at Fannie Mae, we are always open and willing to provide liquidity in our capital towards projects that are supplying housing to those that can't receive that type of housing. So the middle income, you know, even some of the lower income folks, if someone can figure out a model, I know we would be all behind providing capital towards the forgotten class or a lot of the middle income people. That're having a hard time finding, you know, affordable housing. But also too, Beth, I think with this particular problem and issue, I think it takes a village and, there's a lot of us that will have to play a role in this for it to be successful. So as a lender, we have to make sure that capital and liquidity is available, you know, for those that are looking to provide, housing for seniors that are middle income.

Roosevelt Davis: (27:17)
So the capital has to be available. Hopefully, you know, the cities, states, local agencies have to realize that that's a major housing problem. And it's a housing crisis for elderly folks that can't afford to live in a seniors housing property. And it is incumbent upon us, you know, on the owner and operators, right. You know, what can they do to rally like minds to help mitigate this crisis, or even provide a solution. Where are the think tanks or the groups of people getting together and seeing how we can solve this problem and create a particular model in a particular city that can be replicated in other cities and states. I once had a conversation with a borrower. It was like years ago. And we got into affordable housing for seniors.

Roosevelt Davis: (28:20)
And he was just explaining to me that "Roosevelt it's really tough." You know, we don't... There's not enough revenue to cover the expenses, you know, to supply that type of housing. And I told him, there's a way of accomplishing that. I said, I have the secret for that. And so he was just, you know, at the edge of his chair. What is your secret in helping solve the affordability crisis in seniors housing? I said, if each owner dedicated 10 units, 15 units, no 1%, or just 10 units of their particular facility, have that dedicated for middle income or lower income. So a lot of times we can't solve the problem by eating the elephant whole, but maybe bit by bit if we all play our role. So if each private pay, profit type seniors housing property offers some units at their property for the middle income and lower income, we can make a dent in making things better. So if we can get that type of commitment, we can go about helping solve the problem. So your property doesn't have to be a hundred percent for middle income, but if each of us can take charge and realize, "Hey, this is great for the industry. And also for those seniors that may not have the financial means to live in a property." Let's dedicate five units, 10 units, and I would think that will go a long way and really help in this crisis. And it'll be a lot of goodwill to, you know, just our industry and our space. And then folks like me, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, or whoever, maybe we can provide, you know, some pricing discounts if you're committed to offering some units to the middle income and lower income. But I think it can be solved or we can make a dent in reducing this particular problem if we work together and, you know, just make one positive step forward in trying to make it happen.

Beth Mace: (30:35)
That's fantastic. It's so good to hear. And it's really exciting because there's much more buzz about this whole idea of trying to help sort of older adults.

Roosevelt Davis: (30:45)
Mm-hmm, .

Beth Mace: (30:46)
That have middle income situations to try to provide care and housing for them. So, you know, it's a topic that you and I have talked about a number of times, and I know that we talked about it at our events, so that's very exciting. So we're close to the end of our time. So I do want to do almost lightning round questions with you for a second.

Roosevelt Davis: (31:04)
Mm-hmm Sure.

Beth Mace: (31:05)
What is one way you think that we can grow talent in our industry?

Roosevelt Davis: (31:09)
Yeah, I think we have to reach out, reach out to the colleges and universities. Whether it's the school of business or school of nursing, we have to get the word out that this is a viable industry, and there are great employment opportunities. And so, you know, I was a finance major in college and, just having people from the industry to come in and to speak to a finance class, to let them know about the opportunities in senior housing. I think that will go a long way in helping, you know, get the word out about seniors housing and how it's a viable opportunity.

Beth Mace: (31:51)
I totally agree. Again and I go back to, you know, you can do well by doing good in the industry, so. Right. Here’s another quick one. This probably could take a long time. Well, largest challenge facing our industry right now?

Roosevelt Davis: (32:04)
The largest challenge for sure is labor. You can't do anything without good staff working at the property, providing, you know, top-notch care to our senior population. And I think when it comes to labor number one, we definitely have to do our best to pay the market, but, you know, there could be other things that we can do creatively to increase labor coming, into the properties. I once spoke with a particular operator and he said at his particular property staffing, they were having issues because a lot of their children were in daycare. And a lot of time they had to cut hours to drive far distances pick up their child from daycare. And he had a very creative solution. There was like a an old house on his property on the land where he had a senior's housing property. And he converted that house into a daycare center. You know, he said it was a break even, but his staff was able to drop their child off right on campus at this particular house that he converted to a daycare center. And that helped in terms of employee turnover.

Beth Mace: (33:32)
I'm sure that we keep someone... wanting to stay, right.

Roosevelt Davis: (33:35)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Beth Mace: (33:36)
That's a great idea.

Roosevelt Davis: (33:37)
Yeah.

Beth Mace: (33:38)
Okay. So I have to go back to the statements about yourself. So we found out that in fact, you did rupture both your Achilles tendons, but you had two other statements. One was that you ran 10 marathons within a span of 11 years. Now you said you liked basketball, but maybe you're a marathon runner too. Is that true?

Roosevelt Davis: (33:56)
That is not true.

Roosevelt Davis: (33:57)
Oh, not true, okay.

Roosevelt Davis: (33:58)
Not true. Right. Not true. I ran a bunch of half marathons, but I did not or have not run a full marathon.

Beth Mace: (34:08)
Well, half marathon, you still get good credit for that. So you actually do in fact, have four children that are now between the ages of 20 and 25.

Roosevelt Davis: (34:17)
Yes, I do. Yes.

Beth Mace: (34:18)
Holy smokes. So what... Was there a secret for all those parents out there that have young ones? I hear people say, I can't even handle one. You have four here. So any secret?

Roosevelt Davis: (34:30)
Yeah, no. The only thing that I would say is, you know, just provide as much love as you can, you know, always talk and communicate and make time them because they grow up very fast. And before, you know, it it's like, wow, they're out of the house or in college, or, you know, they're living their lives. So definitely make sure you make time for the ones that you love and for the children that you have, and you'll never regret it.

Beth Mace: (34:57)
That's great. Well, Roosevelt, thank you so much. This was a really fun interview. We learned a lot, and I think you gave our listeners some really good things to think about from career path and how you build your career to have family advice and love. And it's all about love in the end, right?

Roosevelt Davis: (35:12)
Absolutely.

Beth Mace: (35:14)
With our residents and our family.

Roosevelt Davis: (35:15)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me back.

Beth Mace: (35:16)
Thanks so much for your time. We really appreciate it. And thank you for listening to our podcast today, everyone. Bye now.